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美国开始向《环球时报》开炮!!
送交者:  2011年11月03日07:55:02 于 [世界军事论坛] 发送悄悄话

美国开始向《环球时报》开炮!!

  是美国《外交政策》开始的,一连几篇文章,大肆抨击环球时报。
  
  先来第一篇(由四月社区编译的http://bbs.m4.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=3226263&extra=
  【中文标题】中国的福克斯新闻
  
  【原文标题】China’s Fox News
  
  【登载媒体】外交政策
  
  【来源地址】http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/10/31/global_times_china_fox_news?page=0,4
  
  【译 者】 WilliamRUC
  
  【翻译方式】 人工
  
  【声 明】 欢迎转载,请务必注明译者和出处 bbs.m4.cn。
  
  
  BEIJING – On most mornings, the senior editorial staffers at China’’s hyper-nationalistic Global Times newspaper flash their identification badges at the uniformed guard outside their compound in eastern Beijing and roll into the office between 9 and 10 a.m. They leave around midnight. In the hectic intervening 14 hours, they commission and edit articles and editorials on topics ranging from asserting China’’s unassailable claims to the South China Sea to the United States’’ nefarious role in the global financial crisis to the mind-boggling liquor bills of China’’s state-owned enterprises, to assemble a slim, 16-page tabloid with a crimson banner and eye-popping headlines. In the late afternoon, staffers propose topics for the all-important lead editorial to editor-in-chief Hu Xijin, who makes all final decisions and has an instinct for the jugular.
  (发自北京)每天早上,中国的民族主义报纸《环球时报》的编辑走到北京东部的人民日报大院,向穿制服的警卫晃了晃工作证,在9点到10点之间走进办公室。他们得在午夜下班。在繁忙的14个小时里,他们讨论和编辑文章,发表社论,题材从中国对南海义正词严的领土要求,美国在全球金融危机中的表现,到中国国企难以置信的白酒发票。这些内容被装载到深红色调的十六版小报上,并有主编胡锡进最终拍板发行。
  
  Take last Tuesday’’s saber-rattling editorial, printed with only slight variations in the Chinese and English editions, which duly unnerved many overseas readers. "Recently, both the Philippines and South Korean authorities have detained fishing boats from China, and some of those boats haven’’t been returned," the editorial fumed. "If these countries don’’t want to change their ways with China, they will need to prepare for the sounds of cannons." The war-mongering language was meant to attract attention, and that it did, with Reuters, Manila Times, Jakarta Globe, The West Australian, Taipei Times, and other overseas media referencing it in news articles. The bellicose editorial was certainly newsworthy, assuming that the paper on some level is a mouthpiece for China’’s rulers. But whose views, exactly, does Global Times really represent?
    那上周二剑拔弩张的社论来说,中文版和英文版只有细微的区别,却使许多海外读者心生忧虑。“最近新加坡和韩国官方扣留了中国渔船,一些船只未被归还”,社论提到:“如果这些国家不改变对中国的态度,他们恐怕要准备听到战场的炮声了。”充斥火药味的语言意在引发注意,的确,它被路透社、马尼拉时报、雅加达环球报、西澳大利亚人报、台北时报和其他境外媒体的所引用。如果一份媒体在一定程度上是中国政府的喉舌,那么它的好战言论肯定有新闻价值。可是究竟环球时报代表谁的主张呢?
  
  In China, top editors at state-sponsored newspapers are appointed officials. Quite often, they have never worked as journalists and have no interest in media (an editorship may be a stepping-stone to becoming a vice-mayor or other municipal official). Hu, however, breaks the mold in nearly every way but one: his devotion to the party. He is a former war correspondent and a maniacal editorial micromanager who insists on co-writing every lead editorial because, as one Global Times staffer put it, "He has a need to write … that’’s very interesting and unusual. He very much enjoys writing opinion pieces."
    中国国家媒体的最高层编辑被作为官员任用。很可能他们从来没当过记者,也对媒体没有兴趣(成为编辑可能只是爬到副市长或其他政府职位的垫脚石)。然然而胡锡进则几乎在每个方面都与他们不同:除了他对党的付出。他曾经是一位战地记者,尤其注重报纸社论,并坚持合作撰写每一篇。正如环球时报员工所说的:“他有写文章的需求……这很有趣,也不常见。他热衷于撰写观点性文章。”
  
  Most of China’’s media bureaucrats are befuddled by social media, but Hu posts obsessively to his account on Weibo, the Chinese version of Twitter, and has nearly 1.4 million followers. (Shortly after September’’s Shanghai subway crash, he wrote at 9:24 p.m.: "The subway and high speed train system fall into a bad cycle like the coal mine accidents … and there will be an editorial in GT.") Rather than ignore China’’s "netizens," he is obsessed with tracking public opinion and debate, if often to refute it.
    就在九月上海地铁碰撞事故发生后不久,晚上9:24他就写道:“地铁、动车这些快速交通系统决不可陷入类似煤矿事故屡抓屡犯的低级循环……明天环球时报社评”。他非但不忽略中国的“网民”,而且时常最终公共舆论动态并反驳。
   
  He also likes to pick popular targets, and tear them down. Take the widespread admiration in Chinese social media of U.S. Vice President Joe Biden’’s thrifty restaurant choices on his recent Beijing visit, and Ambassador Gary Locke’’s habit of traveling coach. Global Times attacked the Americans as being hypocrites and only symbolically thrifty, as a Sept. 22, 2011 editorial noted wryly: "It costs much more in security for Biden to eat a bowl of noodles in a street restaurant than for him to dine at Diaoyutai State Guesthouse."
    他同样喜欢选择流行话题,并加以分析。拿美国副总统拜登在最近对北京的访问中选择小餐馆,或者骆家辉大使习惯做大巴车来说,这些广受赞扬的事迹到了环球时报就有所不同。9月22日的社论指出:“相比在钓鱼台国宾馆就餐,拜登在街边的小餐馆吃一碗面要求更多的安全保卫工作”。
  
  Although Hu is an avid Weibo user, Global Times has also been out in front of criticizing the widely popular social-media site for spreading rumors and poisoning public opinion, as a July 13 editorial argued: "New media was once held up as a model for freedom of speech in China. But in reality, a lack of censorship leads to rumors growing more rapidly."
    尽管胡锡进是一位狂热的微薄使用者,环球时报还在批评社交网络传播谣言和有害公共意见方面站在了第一线。7月13日的社论认为:“新媒体曾被认为中国*的典范,不过事实上缺乏监管会导致谣言传播得更快。”
  
  Global Times is by circulation the third-largest newspaper in China, with a daily print readership of 2.4 million, according to the Sobao Advertising Agency, and reported web readership of 10 million. Even if those numbers are inflated (statistics in China are hard to verify), it’’s still formidable -- by comparison, in 2011 the Washington Post’’s average daily print circulation was 550,821.
    环球时报是中国发行量第三大的报纸,据Sobao广告代理的数据其日发行量达240万,网络的阅读者则达到1000万。即便这些数字有所夸大(中国的发行量数据常不真实),它仍然殊为不易,相比之下,华盛顿邮报在2011年的日发行量只有550821份。
  
  "Why is Global Times popular? Different people in China have different answers," says Wang Wen, chief op-eds page editor and editorial writer. He has a cherubic face and big brown eyes, and despite working slavishly long hours, radiates a sense of exuberance uncommon in China’’s newsrooms. "The liberals say it is because GT promotes and sells Chinese nationalism. The others say it is because GT is very sharp and we dare to touch the sensitive issues."
    “环球时报为什么流行?在中国不同的人有不同答案”,首席专栏编辑、社论作者王文说。他有一张天真无邪的脸,一对棕色大眼睛,尽管工作通宵达旦,却散发着中国新闻编辑部少见的激情。“自由主义者这是以往内环球时报鼓吹和贩卖中国的民族主义。另外的人则表示因为环球时报风格犀利,我们能够触及敏感话题。”
  
  The current incarnation of Global Times is the brainchild of Wang’’s boss, Mr. Hu. Born in Beijing in 1960 and a teenager during China’’s Cultural Revolution, Hu studied at Nanjing Military International Relations University and then received an M.A. in Russian Literature and Language from Beijing Foreign Studies University in 1989. That year marked a traumatic turning point in China: The momentum of a decade of optimism and liberalizing thought was gunned down in Tiananmen Square, and a new era of conservatism and patriotic education was anxiously shepherded in by President Jiang Zemin. In 1989, Hu joined the People’’s Daily as a reporter; from 1993-1996 he was a correspondent in Yugoslavia covering the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina. He returned to Beijing in 1996, and at age 36 joined the new Global Times newspaper as deputy editor.
    环球时报由胡锡进一手创办。他出生在1960年的北京,在文化大革命期间成长。他毕业于南京解放军国际关系学院,1989年在北京外国语大学获得了俄罗斯文学与语言硕士学位。这一年他成为了人民日报的一名记者,1993年到1996年他在南斯拉夫报道波黑战争。1996年回到北京后,36岁的他作为副总编辑进入新创办的环球时报。
  
  Global Times’’s rising profile over the past two decades owes to new forces in the shifting Chinese media landscape. The Chinese edition of the paper, as its name indicates, focuses on international news. Back when China was primarily inward looking and struggling recover from a Maoist economy, that seemed a backwater beat. "But Global Times has been increasingly relevant since 1999," says Anti, "since the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia." -- i.e., the accidental bombing of the Chinese embassy by U.S. and NATO forces, which stirred conspiracy theories in China and happened to take place in Hu’’s old reporting stomping grounds.
    环球时报的上升可归结于过去二十年中国不断抬升的媒体实力。报纸的中文版正如名字所说的,集中报道国际新闻。从中国从毛泽东时代的经济恢复过来以后,此举可谓回水一击。安替说:“环球时报在1999年之后越来越关注中国,比如美国与北约部队对中国大使馆的误炸”,由此激起了阴谋论的说法,而且这又恰好与胡锡进旧日的报道领域相吻合。
  
  Global Times’’s aggressive editorial style is the product of two intersecting trend lines, says Jeremy Goldkorn, an expert on Chinese media and the founder of the Danwei.org website -- Jiang’’s introduction of "patriotic education" into Chinese schools and a concurrent push for newspapers to make money from subscriptions and advertising, as the government limited or withdrew funding. Hu’’s contribution was in realizing that these two forces could go together. Over the last decade, as they were forced to commercialize, China’’s newspapers and magazines adopted a variety of approaches in fighting for readers: Some veered liberal and muckraking, including Hu Shuli’’s Caijing and now Caixin magazines; others focused on celebrity news. "But the Global Times had a different strategy -- a more nationalistic, jingoistic tone," as Goldkorn puts it. "Chinese nationalism is not exactly new. But what they’’ve done is they’’ve packaged it in a more contemporary way."
    环球时报的攻击性社论风格是两条趋势的交织的结果,danwei.org的创始人、中国媒体问题专家Jeremy Goldkorn认为,江泽民在学校推行的爱国主义教育和媒体市场化改革。胡锡进意识到这两股力量可以放在一起。在过去的十年中,中国的媒体被商业化,而不得不追求更多的读者。一些走向揭黑报道并主张*,包括胡舒立的《财经》杂志、现在的《财新》杂志;另一些则专注名人八卦。“但是环球时报走了一条完全不同的路线,一种更富民族主义色彩,主张外交强硬的腔调”, Goldkorn认为“中国的民族主义并不新鲜,但是他们被一种更加现代的方式包装起来了。”
  
  None of this attracted much notice in the West until 2009, when, in the midst of surging overseas interest in China following the 2008 Beijing Olympics, Hu founded Global Times’’s English edition. Some of the news articles are translated directly from the Chinese edition, but most are distinct, with a focus on interpreting China’’s domestic affairs. "Because many readers are foreigners, we have news about what happens in China," Hu says. The English edition is somewhat tamer than the Chinese edition, but still more nationalistic than China Daily, the country’’s other state-run national English language paper, founded in 1981. (Consider these recent headlines from China Daily: "China sticks to peaceful development"; "Experts vow to boost mutual trust between China, Japan"; and "China reaffirms commitment to ties with India.")
    这些现象直到2009年才获得了西方较多的关注,北京奥运会结束之后,中国的海外利益成为新一轮话题,胡锡进创办了环球时报英文版。这些新闻直接从中文版里翻译,不过大多有所不同,集中解释中国的内政事务。“因为许多读者是外国人,我们就发布中国国内新闻”,胡锡进说。英文版在一定程度上比中文版温和,但是仍然比1981年创刊的国家英文报纸中国日报更加洋溢民族主义。想想中国日报最近的一些标题吧,“中国寻求和平路线”;“专家们发誓推动中日互信”;“中国重申与印度的重要关系”。
  
  But what Global Times is today best known for is not news, but its chest-pumping editorials, such as the recent "sounds of cannons" essay. The topic and slant of the lead editorial is the same in both editions, with some slight textual variance in translation. Mr. Hu, who in interviews alternates between speaking in English and in Chinese through a translator, personally labors over each one, usually in the late evening or wee morning hours. As he explains the process: "In the evening, me and another reporter will together write the editorial. I am always included in the writing process. Then we will call or fax about three professors to know their opinion about what we write. … But in the last, I decide whether we will use their opinion, or we will not use their opinion." (Hu downplays the fact that, like all Chinese newspapers, Global Times is subject to government review before publication.)
    但是今天的环球时报最为出名的并不是新闻,而是那些激动人心的社论,比如最近的“大炮声”文章。中英文版版本的标题和方向大多一致,只在一些细节处有轻微差别。胡锡进在在采访中一会儿直接说英语,一会儿通过翻译说中文。他表示自己亲自撰写修改两个版本的文章,通常在深夜乃至凌晨。他解释操作流程说:“在晚上,我和另外一个作者一起写社论。我总是参与到撰写过程中,然后我们给三个教授打电话或者发传真,倾听他们对我们写作的看法……不过最终由我来决定是否加入他们的观点。”胡锡进淡化了环球时报出版前要接受政府审查的事实。
  
  One common theme is to criticize the perfidy of the West, in particular accusing the United States of hypocrisy and attacking American values on the grounds they are not always upheld in America. One example of an anti-Western screed, from July 28, 2011, took a shot at Foreign Policy’’s own Failed States Index: "The 2011 Failed State Index, an annual ranking jointly conducted by the Fund for Peace and Foreign Policy magazine in the US … ranked 177 countries using 12 different indicators. And to no one’’s surprise, most of the countries that topped the list are from Africa, ravaged by civil war, poverty, and natural disasters." The editorial continued: "But it is necessary to ask a question: What and who failed them? … Their formal colonizers, who now dominate the world market, told them exporting raw materials and opening up their markets to Western goods was the quickest path to prosperity. But most of their revenues ended up in the pocket of international corporations."
    一个常见主题是批评西方的背信弃义,特别是美国虚伪的价值观,在国内外事件上奉行双重标准。2011年7月有个反西方的言论就对准了《外交政策》的失败国家指数:“2011年的失败国家指数使用12种标准给177个国家排名。毫不令人惊讶的是大多数最失败的国家在非洲,由于内战、贫穷和自然灾害。”社论继续写道:“但是有必要提出一个疑问,究竟是谁和什么导致了他们的失败?他们过去的殖民者,,依靠他们的出口原材料和门户开放称霸世界市场。大多数收入落入了国际公司的口袋里。”
  
    Hu Xijin’’s freewheeling tendencies probably represent the most energetic effort in China to actually win readers for party papers. Of course, Global Times’’s rising profile may also be the product of limited alternatives: Beijing allows no national newspaper devoted to international news to publish on the opposite end of the political spectrum, with a more liberal slant. As a former reporter at Beijing Youth Daily told me: "Why do people read Global Times? There are few options … there’’s no real news in China. We have such limited choices."
    胡锡进的随心所欲的倾向或许代表了为争取读者的最大努力。当然,环球时报的发展史也是缺乏选择的结果:北京不允许任何一家国家报纸站在外交政策对立面。一位北京青年报的前任记者告诉我:“人们为什么读环球时报?别无选择,中国没有什么真正意义上的新闻,我们的选择太少了。”
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  环球时报 出名了! - eachus 11/03/11 (302)
  说明自己的路数对了  /无内容 - PLA老兵 11/03/11 (311)
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6 闂佽崵濮村ú锔炬崲閸℃稏鈧懘鏁冮崒姘辩厬閻庡箍鍎卞ú锔惧緤婵犳碍鍋i柛銉e妽缂嶆垹鈧鍠曠划娆撳箚閸儱鐒垫い鎺戝鐟欙附銇勯幒鎴姛缁炬儳銈搁弻娑樜旀担鍦嚒闂佸憡鐟ョ粔鍓佸垝濮樿埖鍊绘俊顖濇娴犳粓姊洪崨濠呭缂併劌銈搁幊娆撴晸閿燂拷 eastwest
7 闂佸搫顦弲婊堝垂鐠轰綍娑㈠煛閸涱厼宓嗗┑鐘绘涧濡鏁妸鈺傜叆婵炴垶顨嗛ˇ鐑芥偠濮樻湹鎲剧€规洏鍎遍濂稿醇閻斿嘲濮嶉梻浣告啞椤ㄥ棗煤濠靛⿴鏆伴梻浣姐€€閸嬫捇鏌熼鍡楀暞濞呇囨煟閻愭潙鍤柛瀣閻g敻宕橀鑲╊槰闂佽法鍣﹂幏锟� eastwest
8 闂佸搫顦弲婊堟偡閵堝鐓傛繝濠傜墕閹瑰爼鏌曟繛鍨姕闁诡垱鍔曢湁闁挎繂妫涢埊鏇㈡煟閿旇鐏$紒瀣槸椤繈顢楅埀顒勫箖娴h櫣纾奸柍褜鍓熷鑽も偓闈涙憸閹差亜鈹戦悩铏婵☆偂绶氶、娆愬緞閹邦厼鍓梺鍛婃处閸撴稑岣块妶澶嬬厽婵犲﹥鍔栫€氾拷 eastwest
9 闂備礁鎲¢〃鍡楊熆濡皷鍋撻悷鎵紞缂佽鲸甯熺粻娑㈠籍閸屾ê浠梻浣告啞閻燂箓宕归悽鍛婂創鐎广儱顦伴崕宥夋煕閺囥劌澧柣蹇撴喘閺屻倝鎮烽弶璺ㄩ獓濠电姭鍋撳ù锝囨嚀缁剁偞鎱ㄥΟ鍝勵暢鐟滈偊鍨堕弻銊モ槈閾忣偄顏� zt eastwest
10 缂傚倸鍊稿ú銈嗩殽缁嬫5鐟拔旈崘顏嗙効婵炶揪缍€椤曟牠宕滄ィ鍐╁€甸柣銏㈢《閸嬫挸鈽夊⿰鍐ㄧ畱闂備焦鎮堕崕鏉懳涢崟顖氬惞妞ゆ挶鍨归惌妤呮煥濠靛棛澧曢柣鎺曞吹缁辨帞浠﹂懞銉﹀創閻熸粍婢橀崐鍨暦濠靛惟闁挎梻鏅惃濠氭⒑閹稿骸鍠曢柟鍑ゆ嫹 eastwest
一周回复热帖
1 闂備胶鍋ㄩ崕鑼垝閸儲鍤堥柟杈剧畱閻愬﹪鏌﹀Ο渚▓闁告柨鎳橀弻锝夊閵忕姵鐝㈢紓浣介哺婢瑰棛妲愬Ο缁樺劅闁斥晛鍟伴々顒€鈹戦灏栧悍濠碘€虫喘閵嗗倿骞庨懞銉︽珫闁诲繒鍋犳慨銈囩矆閳ь剟姊洪幖鐐插姤濠殿喓鍊濆鏌ュΨ閳轰胶顦梺璺ㄥ櫐閹凤拷 eastwest
2 闂備胶鎳撳﹢閬嶅窗鎼淬劌桅闁硅揪绠戠粻姘舵煏婵炵偓娅呮繛鍛灲閺屻劌鈽夊Δ渚囨▊缂備胶濮伴崐婵嗙暦濡ゅ啠鍋撻敐搴濈盎鐟滄澘绻橀弻娑樷枎閹邦剛浼囬梺鍦缂嶄線宕归幆褉鍫柛鈩冡缚閿涙繄绱撻崒姘殲闁搞劌銈搁妴渚€骞嬮敃鈧粈澶愭煥閻曞倹瀚� eastwest
3 闂備線娼уΛ娆撳礉濮椻偓閿濈偤宕ㄩ鍛粯闂佺粯鍔︽禍鏍磻閹捐绠i柨鏃傛櫕閵堫偊姊虹粙棰楀牓寮插┑鍡忔灁闁硅揪绠戦崣濠囧箹濞n剙鐏柨娑橆槸閳藉骞樼€电ǹ鈷堥梺鍝勬媼閸嬪﹪寮澶嬫櫢闁跨噦鎷� eastwest
4 缂傚倸鍊风粈浣烘崲閹寸姷鐭堥柛锔诲幐閸嬫挸鈽夊畷鍥╃獥濠殿喚鎳撻ˇ鐢稿极瀹ュ拋娼╂い鎰╁劚楠炩偓闂備焦鎮堕崕鏌ュ垂濠靛柊褎寰勯幇顓熸珫闁诲繒鍋熼搹搴ㄥ礉閳ь剟姊虹拠鈥虫灈閻庢凹鍙冨畷鎰板箻鐠囪尙浼嬪┑鐘诧工鐎氼參寮堕崷顓涘亾濞堝灝娅欓柟鍑ゆ嫹 eastwest
5 闂備礁鎲¢〃鍡楊熆濡皷鍋撻悷鎵紞缂佽鲸甯熺粻娑㈠籍閸屾ê浠梻浣告啞閻燂箓宕归悽鍛婂創鐎广儱顦伴崕宥夋煕閺囥劌澧柣蹇撴喘閺屻倝鎮烽弶璺ㄩ獓濠电姭鍋撳ù锝囨嚀缁剁偞鎱ㄥΟ鍝勵暢鐟滈偊鍨堕弻銊モ槈閾忣偄顏� zt eastwest
6 缂傚倸鍊稿ú銈嗩殽閹间焦鍋橀柨鐕傛嫹 闂備胶枪缁绘劙宕㈤弽顐ュС妞ゆ帊鑳堕埢鏃€銇勯幘璺轰沪缂佸倸娲弻锟犲幢濡も偓閳ь剙鎲$粋鎺楁偐閻㈢數鐓撻梺閫炲苯澧寸€规洜鍏橀幃銏犵暋閻楀牏妲橀梻浣告啞閻熻京绱為崶鈺傤潟婵犻潧娲︽刊鎾煟濡灝鐨洪悗鐧告嫹 eastwest
7 缂傚倸鍊稿ú銈嗩殽閹间焦鍋橀柨鐕傛嫹 濠电偞鍨堕幖鈺呭储閸撗勵偨闁靛ě鍕伕闂佸憡绋戦敃銉╋綖濠婂牊鐓欓悗娑欌棨閼测晛鍨濋柣妯款嚙缁€鍌溾偓瑙勬礀濞茬姴螞瑜旈弻娑樜旈埀顒€煤閵婏富娈介柛銉墮缁€鍡椢涙0浣藉厡閺夆晜妫冮獮鏍ㄦ綇閻愵剙顏� eastwest
8 闂備礁鎲¢〃鍡楊熆濡皷鍋撶憴鍕枙闁硅櫕顨婇幐濠冨緞鐎n亜澧鹃梻鍌欑劍瑜板啰绮旈幘顔㈠洭寮婚妷锕€娈i棅顐㈡处閻喚鍒掗幘鏂ユ斀闁稿本纰嶇粚鍧楁煙閼告娈滈柡浣哥Ч閺佹捇鏁撻敓锟� zt eastwest
9 闂備礁鎲¢〃鍡楊熆濮椻偓瀹曟瑨銇愰幒鎾虫畬闂佸憡鍔﹂崢浠嬵敁濮樿埖鈷戦柟缁樺笚缁屽潡鏌涢悩瓒侇亪锝為姀銈嗘櫢闁跨噦鎷�-10闂備胶鎳撻悺銊ㄦ懌濠电姍鈧崑鎾绘⒑閹稿海鈯曞ǎ鍥閳ь剚鍝庨崹浠嬬嵁閳ь剛鎲搁幋锕€绀傛俊顖濐嚙椤曢亶鏌ㄩ悤鍌涘 eastwest
10 濠殿喗甯掔€氼剛鎹㈤幒妤冨祦濠㈣埖鍔栭崐鍫曟煥閻曞倹瀚� - 濠电偞鍨堕幖鈺呭储閻撳篃鐟拔旀担渚锤閻熸粍鍨垮畷妤€螣缂佹ü姘﹂梺鎼炲劀閸愶絾瀵橀梻浣告啞椤ㄥ懎鐣烽鍕垫晩濠电姴娲ょ粈鍌炴煏婵炲灝鈧鎮烽鐐寸厽闁挎繂绻戠€氾拷 eastwest
历史上的今天:回复热帖
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