劉欣：“活佛”被用來尊稱德高望重、修行有成就的藏傳佛教的僧侶。活佛轉世制度是藏傳佛教一種宗教首領的傳承方式。根多活佛，您在四歲時就被認定為昌都強巴林寺四大活佛之一，並接受了坐床儀式。從那一刻開始，您的生活發生了什麼變化？作為活佛，您的主要職責是什麼？

根多活佛：本人四歲開始被認定為昌都強巴林寺第六世謝文·根多轉世活佛。

在我小時候，學習文化知識是首要任務，因此我開始廣泛學習各種文化課程。

長大後，我參加了藏傳佛教的各種儀式。作為一名活佛，普度眾生、為眾生謀福祉是我的使命。

劉欣：您一九五九年離開西藏時才七歲，當時為什麼要離開？

根多活佛：在六歲後的那一年裡，我擔任了昌都解放委員會副主任。雖然我那時候很年幼，但仍堅持參加委員會的各項活動。

例如，在我當選昌都解放委員的一年裡，我還參與了西藏自治區籌備委員會的民主改革工作。

當時十到十五名貴族子弟有機會得到政府資助，前往北京念書。

但是我的父母親朋都不知道實情，他們堅決反對。他們害怕去了內地就再也回不來了，就一輩子離開了家鄉。

因為這些誤解，我們搬去了印度。

國家對我們關心備至，這是毋庸置疑的。我們同樣心存感激。

劉欣：您先去尼泊爾和印度生活了十多年，然後又在瑞士生活了四十年，我知道很難用三言兩語來概括這麼多年，但您能不能試着簡單說說，在國外的那段時間您是什麼心情？主要遇到過哪些困難？

根多活佛：正如我剛剛說的，我特別享受擔任解放委員的那段時光。但因為我父母的誤解和顧慮，他們把我帶去了尼泊爾和印度。我們那時在異國他鄉過得很辛苦。

後來我去了瑞士，那兒的生活條件雖說不錯，但我對家鄉的思念和祖國的熱愛從未動搖過。

剛到國外的時候，我總是通過收聽中央人民廣播電台和西藏人民廣播電台等來緩解思鄉之情，關注家鄉發展。

後來中國進行了改革開放。一九八四年，我第一次回到家鄉，之後去了內地。

根多活佛：回國後，我發現西藏開展了大量基建工程， 如修建道路、修繕寺廟等。人民的生活蒸蒸日上，我感到非常開心和激動。

劉欣：那次訪問之後，您在瑞士又待了二十七年才搬回西藏，是在什麼時候，又是什麼令您做出這個決定？您的家人、瑞士當地朋友和藏胞支持嗎？

根多活佛：一九八四年首次回國時，中央統戰部、陰法唐和帕巴拉·格列朗傑等西藏自治區領導呼籲我回國（定居），他們說，自改革開放以來，國家對海外藏胞的各項幫扶政策非常優越。

當時我非常想回國，但是我的兩個孩子剛剛八、九歲，還在上學。我不能拋下他們不管，所以必須要等他們完成學業。

二零一一年，我的兩個孩子都二十五歲了，他們順利畢業，參加工作，能夠自力更生了，我也就安心回國了。

劉欣：您剛才提到您回來的原因之一是看到當地政府在佛教場所上的持續投入和對宗教信仰自由的尊重。您能舉一些例子嗎？您認為外界了解這樣的政策嗎？如果不了解，原因何在？

根多活佛：一些國外媒體一直在批評中國的宗教自由和宗教政策，這是國外反華勢力和敵對勢力的挑釁和煽動。

即便咱們國家做得再好，他們也不會就此罷休，還是會煽動輿論，對中國指手畫腳。至少我是這麼認為。

劉欣：這十年裡，您覺得昌都和整個西藏最大的變化是什麼？您觀察到當地民眾對這些變化有什麼感受？

根多活佛：我回國已有十年。在這十年時間裡，改革開放迎來了四十周年，我最欣慰和感動的是西藏發生了翻天覆地的變化。

2020年7月29日，西藏昌都市夜景/ CFP

在這樣的巨變之下，人民的生活得到了極大的改善，人們更加幸福。

逐一介紹是說不完的，我就舉些簡單的例子，比如在交通、醫療、教育、環境保護、脫貧攻堅等領域，你都能看到國家對西藏的大力扶持。

總之，西藏在很多方面都取得了舉世矚目的成就，我感到非常開心。

我去過歐洲和美國，我是有發言權的。我可以說在很多方面，西藏和國內一些地方的生活水平甚至超過了西方國家。

劉欣：您能給我們舉一個例子嗎？

根多活佛：例如，美國的醫療保險是為資產階級服務的，普通民眾很難享受到。

當時國內說要建立醫保體系，我都不太敢相信。但後來醫保體系正式建立起來，我非常吃驚，也倍感自豪。

美國也沒有高鐵。當我去到美國時，我心想，作為一個發達國家，各項設施應該很先進。當時我打算坐高鐵，但是卻被告知美國根本就沒有高鐵，只有普通火車。

劉欣：我們來談談西藏宗教信仰方面的相關情況。根據您的觀察，當地人有沒有宗教信仰自由？具體表現在哪些方面？您能否舉一個您日常生活中的例子呢？

根多活佛：我真的覺得西藏和整個中國的宗教自由政策特別好，國家斥巨資修繕寺院，保護非物質文化遺產。

2020年，西藏昌都市對強巴林寺內壁畫進行修復/ CFP

劉欣：二零一六年七月，在西藏日喀則，二十六歲的十一世班禪額爾德尼·確吉傑布舉辦了時輪金剛灌頂法會，為信徒講經灌頂，幫助他們理解生命的輪迴。這是半個世紀來首次在西藏舉行時輪金剛灌頂法會，有超過十萬人參加。您也在現場。您當時是什麼感受？您認為組織這麼大型宗教活動的意義何在？

根多活佛：我很榮幸參加了這次活動。大量信教群眾能夠參加班禪大師主持的時輪金剛灌頂法會，這就是宗教信仰自由的體現。

西藏擁有獨特的宗教和文化習俗。我由衷高興的是十世班禪也開展過類似的宗教儀式。

十一世班禪大師每年都會舉行宗教儀式。去年他曾蒞臨西藏昌都強巴林寺和青海玉樹。今年他到四川及西藏的各大寺院開展宗教活動，實現了信教群眾的願望。對此我感到非常高興。

此外，今年是建黨一百周年和西藏和平解放七十周年，習近平總書記來到了西藏。

這次是他第三次來到西藏。習近平總書記對西藏人民無微不至的關心和關愛，百萬藏族同胞看在眼裡，念在心裡。

2021年7月17日，西藏自治區昌都市芒康縣/ CFP

劉欣：然而，批評者稱中國一直在干預活佛轉世認定過程。對此，您怎麼看？西藏地區的活佛轉世認定是否符合宗教儀軌和歷史定製呢？

根多活佛：是這樣，包括班禪大師在內的各大活佛都是通過金瓶掣籤的規制進行認定的。自清朝以來，西藏活佛都是由中央政府認定。

藏傳佛教活佛轉世的認定包括很多特殊的宗教儀式，需要由地方和中央政府分別進行認定，這一做法至今已有上百年的歷史。

清政府對達賴喇嘛和班禪大師等各大活佛授予印章和頭銜，這些都能在羅布林卡和博物館中看得到。通過金瓶掣籤和授予金冊，轉世活佛得到認定。

自古以來就有活佛轉世的認定，現在依舊沿襲了該規制。活佛的認定權歸中央所有，外國無權插足和干涉此事。

劉欣：2019年您向政府捐獻了三百八十件文物和歷史文獻。這些物件中有不少是國家一級或者二級文物。您為什麼要這樣做？

根多活佛：我向國家捐獻了三百八十件文物，作為一名藏族人，國家、家鄉、人民對我有恩，我想為國家和家鄉貢獻一絲微薄之力，希望國家興盛、家鄉富饒、人民富裕。

這些文物是歷代歷世收藏之物，我捐贈這些文物是為了讓他們得到更好的保護，讓歷史能再延續上百年。

出於多種原因和目的，在我離開人世之前，我想把這些文物捐獻給博物館，由國家進行登記保管。這是長久之策，也了卻了我的心願。

我希望國家富強，人民平安。

2011年07月01日，西藏博物館/ CFP

劉欣：在過去的採訪中，您提到您的一個願望，那就是讓生活在海外的藏族同胞看到一個真實的西藏。您邀請他們自己來西藏看一看，當然得等到疫情結束後。如果借今天的機會，您想對他們說什麼呢？

根多活佛：雖然我在國外待了三、四十年，但我和中國領事館、中央統戰部交往密切。一九八四年以後，我多次回到西藏探親、出席紀念活動。

我用書面和口頭的形式，為大家展示我眼中的真實西藏。很多外國人迫切地想看到西藏如今的面貌，所以我帶了很多光盤，一邊播放一邊講解。

我在國外展示西藏的發展和人民安居樂業的現狀。有句諺語是“百聞不如一見”，我鼓勵他們親自回一趟西藏去看看。

（翻頁查看英文版）

Tulku Koondhor was only four years old when he was reincarnated as a Living Buddha in Qamdo of eastern Tibet in 1956. He left Tibet three years later and eventually settled in Switzerland in the 1970s. In 2011, he decided to move back. What made him leave the country? And why did he return fifty years later? How did Tibet achieve remarkable development in last decades? Liu Xin spoke to Living Buddha Koondhor himself.

Liu Xin: The title of "Living Buddha" refers to eminent Tibetan monks and later was recognized as a special title for a monk who became the successor of the deceased leader of a monastery. Mr. Koondhor, you were reincarnated at the age of four as one of the four Living Buddhas in the Qamdo Galden Jampaling Monastery. How has your life changed after that moment? And what became your primary duty as a living Buddha?

Living Buddha Koondhor: When I was four years old, I was recognized as the sixth Koondhor Tulku, the Living Buddha of Jampaling Monastery in Tibet's Qamdo.

When I was young, gaining knowledge was the top priority. So, I began to take various kinds of cultural courses.

After I grew up, I participated in various Tibetan Buddhism rituals. As a Living Buddha, it is my duty to deliver all living creatures from difficulties and bring benefits to them.

Liu Xin: You left Tibet in 1959, around the age of 7. Why did you leave back then？

Living Buddha Koondhor: In about a year after I turned 6, I was the Deputy Director of the Qamdo People's Liberation Committee. Though I was pretty young, I would insist on participating in the different activities of the committee.

For example, during that one year, as a member of Qamdo People's Liberation Committee, I also participated in the democratic reform work of the Preparatory Committee for the Tibet Autonomous Region.

There were about 10 to 15 children from aristocratic families who had the opportunity to study in Beijing with government support.

However, my parents, friends and other relatives were strongly against this as they were not aware of the true situation. They were afraid that we would be gone forever and would be away from homeland for a lifetime.

Due to this misperception, we left for India.

There was no doubt that the country cared for us. And we were grateful for it.

Liu Xin: You first lived in Nepal and India for over a decade, and then for another 4 decades in Switzerland. I know it’s very hard to summarize half a century, but if you could try, could you give us a brief description of how you felt while being outside of China, and what were the major difficulties that you had to overcome?

Living Buddha Koondhor: As I said earlier, I really enjoyed the time when I was a member of the Qamdo People's Liberation Committee. However, due to my parents' misunderstanding and concerns, they took me away to Nepal and India. At that time, it was tough living in a foreign country.

Later, I went to Switzerland. Although the living conditions were good, my longing for home and my love for my country never wavered.

When I started living abroad, I always listened to China National Radio, the Tibetan People's Radio, and similar stations to cope with homesickness, as well as to follow what was happening in my homeland.

Then there was China's reform and opening up. I first returned home in 1984.

Liu Xin: In 1984, at the age of 32, you returned to pay a visit to Tibet Autonomous Region for the first time. Do you still remember scenes from that visit? What impressions did you get back then?

Living Buddha Koondhor: After returning, I found that Tibet had carried out massive infrastructure construction, such as building roads and repairing monasteries. People led better lives, so I felt happy and was very excited.

Liu Xin: After that trip, you stayed in Switzerland for 27 years before moving back. When was that final decision made? How was it made? Did your family and the local communities, especially the Tibetan community, support your decision?

Living Buddha Koondhor: In 1984, both the United Front Work Department of the CPC Central Committee and the leaders of Tibet like Yin Fatang (former secretary of the Committee of the CPC of Tibet Autonomous Region), and Pagbalha Geleg Namgyai (former chairman of the CPPCC of Tibet Autonomous Region), appealed to me to return to China. They said since the reform and opening up, the government had introduced many beneficial policies to support overseas Tibetans.

At that time, I desperately wanted to return. However, my two children, who had just turned 8 and 9, were still in school. I couldn't leave them behind and had to wait till they finished school.

In 2011, after my two children were 25, graduated and found jobs, they were able to stand on their own feet. So, I was relieved and came back to China.

Liu Xin: You mentioned previously that part of the reason you decided to come back was the local authorities' persistent investment in Buddhist temples and policies that respect religious freedom. Could you give some examples? Do you think the outside world know enough about these investments and policies? If not, why?

Living Buddha Koondhor: Some foreign news media outlets have been criticizing China's policies on religious freedom. It is incited by some anti-China and hostile forces abroad who want to provoke China.

Even if our country does a good job, they will not stop. They will still stir up public opinion against China and point fingers at China. At least I think so.

Liu Xin: Over the past ten years what are the biggest changes you have seen in Qamdo and Tibet in general? What's your observation of the local people's perception about these changes?

Living Buddha Koondhor: It has been 10 years since I returned. During this period, China celebrated the 40th anniversary of reform and opening up. What makes me most gratified and moved is the radical changes that have taken place in Tibet.

With such dramatic changes, the living standard has been greatly improved and people are happier.

It's impossible to list everything. Just to give you some brief examples, you can see the extent to which the state has taken care of various sectors such as transportation, medical care, education, environmental protection, and poverty alleviation.

In short, Tibet has made world-renowned achievements in many aspects, which I am particularly delighted about.

I have been to Europe and the United States. So, I can say that the living conditions in Tibet and other parts of China have even overtaken the West in some aspect.

Liu Xin: Could you just give us one example, please?

Living Buddha Koondhor: For example, the U.S. healthcare system usually serves the interests of the bourgeoisie, but not the general public.

I didn't really believe it when China first planned to build the medical insurance system, but when the system was officially established, I was stunned and proud.

The U.S. does not have high-speed rail either. When I arrived in the U.S., I thought as a developed country, the facilities would be very advanced. At that time, I planned to take the high-speed train, but I was told there are no high-speed trains at all, only ordinary trains.

Liu Xin: Let's talk about situation concerning religious belief in Tibet. According to your observation, do the local people have freedom of religious belief? How is that manifested? Could you use an example from your daily life to demonstrate your observations?

Living Buddha Koondhor: I do think highly of China's religious policy in terms of protecting religious freedom in Tibet and other parts of the country. It has spent significant sums on the repair and renovation of many monasteries, and the preservation of intangible cultural heritage.

The country has funded a considerable amount of money to build new Buddhist colleges in Tibetan areas and has trained many apprentices and sutra instructors. It has given great support to inherit and promote Buddhist culture.

Liu Xin: In July 2016, the Kalachakra instructions were delivered by the 11th Panchen Lama in Xigaze, Tibet. The ritual includes a series of teachings that are given by gurus to help Buddhists through the cycle of life. This is the first time in 50 years that the ritual has been performed in Tibet. More than 100,000 people attended the ritual. You were there on side as well. How did you feel at that moment? How do you look at the significance of China holding such a large-scale religious event?

Living Buddha Koondhor: I was honored to participate in the event. The fact that a large number of believers were able to attend the tantric Kalachakra instructions is proof of religious freedom.

Tibet has unique religious and cultural customs. I am truly happy that similar religious rituals were also held during the time of the 10th Panchen Lama.

The 11th Panchen Lama holds religious activities every year. Last year, the 11th Panchen Lama visited the Jampaling Monastery of Qamdo in Tibet and Yushu Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture in northwestern Qinghai province. This year he visited monasteries in Sichuan province and Tibet to conduct religious activities and meet the needs of religious believers. I am very happy to see this.

More than that, President Xi Jinping visited Tibet this year as 2021 is the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Communist Party of China and the 70th anniversary of peaceful liberation of Tibet.

This is his third trip to Tibet. President Xi's unfailing care and concern for Tibetans has been seen and remembered by millions of Tibetans.

Liu Xin: However, critics say China is "intervening" in the reincarnation process in Tibet. How do you understand the situation? Do these processes align with Buddhist religious rituals and historical conventions?

Living Buddha Koondhor: Yes, this is true. Living Buddhas, such as the Panchen Lama, are identified by "drawing lots from the golden urn". The reincarnation system for the Living Buddhas in Tibet should be approved by the central government since the Qing Dynasty.

There are many special religious rituals for the identification of the reincarnated Living Buddhas in Tibetan Buddhism. This procedure involves recognition from both the local and central governments, a practice that has been in place for hundreds of years.

The Qing government granted seals and titles to the Living Buddhas such as the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, which can be seen in Norbulingka and museums. The reincarnated Living Buddhas are identified and approved through drawing lots from the golden urn and the golden certificate of appointment.

Therefore, the Central Government has recognized the reincarnation system of the Living Buddhas and conferred titles on them for a long time. The process of "drawing lots from the golden urn" is used to identify the reincarnated Living Buddha, including the grand Living Buddha the Panchen Lama, according to religious rituals and historical conventions of Tibetan Buddhism.

The reincarnation system has been introduced for a long time ago and is still followed today. The reincarnated Living Buddhas have to be approved by the Central Government. Foreign countries have no right to interfere in this matter.

Liu Xin: In 2019, you donated around 380 cultural relics and historic literature to China. Many of these are classified as first- or second-grade cultural relics of China. Why did you do this?

Living Buddha Koondhor: I have donated 380 cultural relics to our country. My country and people have always been kind to me. I want to make my modest contribution to the country and my hometown. I genuinely wish my country and its people prosperity and well-being.

These relics are the collection of generations. I gave them to better protect them, so that they can be preserved for hundreds of years more.

Before my life comes to an end, I want to donate these cultural relics to the museum, to be registered and taken care of by the country, for many reasons. This is a long-term solution as well as my genuine wish.

My hope is that the country prospers, and the people are at peace.

Liu Xin: In previous interviews, you talked about one of your hopes, being to share the real picture of Tibet with Tibetan people living overseas. Now you have invited them to take a look themselves, of course we have to wait until the pandemic is over. What do you want to say to them if you could use the opportunity today?

Living Buddha Koondhor: Although I spent 30 to 40 years abroad, I was closely involved with the Chinese Consulate and the United Front Work Department of the CPC Central Committee, and I was in and out of Tibet many times since 1984 to visit relatives and attend commemorative events as a guest.

I have shared, in written and oral form, the real situation in Tibet that I have witnessed. Foreigners are very interested in knowing what Tibet looks like today, so I have many CDs with me and play them while explaining.

I have showed my overseas audience Tibet's development and how people are living in prosperity and contentment today. There is a proverb: "Seeing is believing", and I encourage them to come to Tibet to see for themselves.