毛泽东指定林彪陪同接见。林彪开始推说出汗不去。毛为此很不高兴，

执意坚持林彪一定要出面。但林彪仍不想理会。后来Yequn急了，下跪

哭求，陈说利害，林彪才勉Qiang答应。但在会见时，宾朋寒暄完，

林彪随即退出，一人枯坐在外面大厅的角落里，一直到会见结束。

谁还有心思瞥一眼47年前两位没有资产的阶级革命家 —— 毛齐唠嗑内容 ？

    1971年6月3日毛泽东主席与齐奥塞斯库同志谈话全文记录

   MINUTES OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN NICOLAE CEAUSESCU AND MAO ZEDONG IN BEIJING ON 3 JUNE 1971

          请点击观赏短视频：

Cde. ( Comrade ) Mao Zedong: Welcome comrades.

Cde. Nicolae Ceausescu: Thank you very much. We thank you for the very warm welcome we received.

We would like to express our satisfaction with the possibility we have to visit the People’s Republic of China, to meet with you and the other leaders of the Chinese party and state.

Mao: When was the last time you were here?

Ceausescu: Seven years [ago].

Mao: In these seven years some things have changed; did you notice this?

Ceausescu: We saw the people, hundreds of thousands of people; we visited Tsinghua University. We were impressed by the positive attitude and the joy of living displayed by the people in the capital; also, especially, [we were impressed] by the preoccupation with perfect education, to tie it to production, to life, to the construction of socialism.

Mao: That is the way we think about it as well; now we are experimenting.

At the same time, we have to continue to use older teachers and professors, bourgeois; we still don’t have other people. They, however, have to listen to us, to listen to workers and peasants. In their words, they listen; however, in their mind, they blame. There is need for more time, slowly, slowly; 21 years passed since [the success of the revolution.] It’s true, even in the past there were some successes in education; we can’t negate everything. But in what you mentioned just now, the revolutionizing of education, this only happened in the past years.

With you[r country] the activity went forth with a lot of progress.

谷歌同学译文：

Zhe Zhe Zhe    Zhao Zhao Zhao   Yang Yang Yang   Wu Wu Wu   

Qiang Qiang Qiang   Bang Bang Bang   Yi Yi Yi    Rong Rong Rong    

Dun Dun Dun    Xu Xu Xu    Er Er Er    Gou Gou Gou  

Jing Jing Jing   Dan Dan Dan  Ye Ye Ye  Kuang Kuang Kuang

CDE。毛泽东：欢迎同志们。

CDE。 Nicolae Ceausescu：非常感谢。我们感谢您的热烈欢迎。

我们想表达我们对有可能访问中华人民共和国，与你们和中国党和国家的其他领导人会面的可能性表示满意。

毛：你上次来这里是什么时候？

齐奥塞斯库：七年前。

毛：在这七年中，有些事情已经改变了。你注意到了吗？

齐奥塞斯库：我们看到了人民，数十万人;我们参观了清华大学。我们对首都人民的积极态度和生活的喜悦印象深刻;特别是，我们对完全教育的专注，把它与生产，生活，社会主义建设联系起来，印象深刻。

毛：这也是我们考虑的方式;现在我们正在试验。

同时，我们还要继续用资产阶级老教师和教授;我们还没有其他人。但是，他们必须倾听我们的意见，倾听工人和农民的声音。用他们的话说，他们听Zhe; 然而，在他们的心中，他们责备。需要更多时间，慢慢地，慢慢地;自革命成功以来已过去21年。的确，即使在过去教育方面也取得了一些成功，我们不能否定一切。但在你刚才提到的教育革命化中，这只发生在过去几年。

随着你[国家]活动的推进取得了很大进展。

齐奥塞斯库：没错，过去几年我们取得了很好的成绩。我们也关心改变教育，以更好地与生产联系起来。我们专注于吸引工人阶级去管理这些机Gou，并把这个党同人民群众联系起来。

我们可以说，一般情况下，事情顺利进行。当然，我们有很多不足之处，但我们正在与工人阶级一起努力与人民一起努力，确保社会主义建设。

毛：如果我们谈论缺陷，那么我们也可以说我们有很多。

齐奥塞斯库：没有一个国家没有缺陷。不同的是有些工作要解决它们，而另一些则试图隐藏它们。

毛：不能隐瞒缺陷，因为迟早 - 在一天，一年或未来几个世纪 - 这些缺陷将被揭示。如果我们告诉人们什么是最好的;人们不会被欺骗。 [欺骗]只能持续很短时间。几十年来人们不会被欺骗。

齐奥塞斯库：这是非常真实的，尤其是今天，今天的沟通和信息方法，现实不能隐藏很长时间。

毛：这是非常真实的。即使他们知道这一点。[1]

齐奥塞斯库：毕竟，冲突出现在他们试图从人身上隐藏现实的地方。

毛：在有些地方，冲突还没有出现。

齐奥塞斯库：但是冲突会不可避免地出现。

毛：就是这样。

齐奥塞斯库：当然，如果他们不采取行动来整顿事情，并消除[赤字]。

毛：有些共产党侮辱了其他党派，他们认为真相在他们这边，其他方面总是犯错误。我们被称为教条，战争贩子，我们有独裁。这就是他们所说的，在这里我们有一个军事官僚专政。

齐奥塞斯库：不幸的是，确实存在这种谩骂和侮辱其他方面的做法。

毛：有些缔约方像你的那样不这样说。最近，我读了你的演讲。以一种非常开放的方式，人们认识到过去有过失误;其他方面不能接受这样的事情。某些方面侮辱了我们十多年，我们甚至没有回应。他们被迫侮辱我们。我们可以展示对这种事件的理解。同时，我们很高兴我们有被侮辱的质量。这是非常好的。 1960年在布加勒斯特举行的会议，是不是强加于你？[2]当时，Cde。 Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej有很多困难。我们可以刁难你吗？！

齐奥塞斯库：会议确实是在那里举行的，在某种程度上，我们也是有过错的，因为我们可能拒绝举行这次会议。今天这样的会议不可能，也不会发生在罗马尼亚。

毛：当时很难拒绝主办会议。在1956年举行的中国共产党第八次代表大会之际，我与格奥尔基·盖洛吉·德伊进行了有趣的交谈。他从心里直接告诉我一些事情。当然，忍受这样的事情是很困难的。那时共产党解散了，引发了辩论。批评是必不可少的。

齐奥塞斯库：确实有一些困难时期，即使在今天也有一些困难时期。有新的设计可以创建不同的领导格式，从而消除其他国家和政党的独立性。

毛：如果整个地球将成为一个国家的领土将是一件好事！

齐奥塞斯库：很难; 即使现在可用，它也是太多了。

毛：真的太多了！

齐奥塞斯库：我们认为最好的办法是在世界各国之间建立基于平等的关系。

毛泽东：不论他们的规模如何，甚至与圣马力诺一样小的国家，其人口为16,000人;我们真诚地感到高兴能够与这样的国家建立外交接触。

齐奥塞斯库：当然，在这个地球上，有些国家是非常大的，大的，中等的国家，小的和非常小的国家，但是所有国家都渴望自由地生活，当然是与其他国家，与其他国家密切合作，但是不能互相配合。

毛：还有一个问题，那就是在党代表大会上还有其他方面的邀请;在大会期间，例如在捷克斯洛伐克代表大会期间，发生了侮辱和指责。改变这种做法会不会更好？最好不要邀请任何外国代表团参加大会。我们没有邀请任何人参加第九届大会。确实，天并没有塌下来。

齐奥塞斯库：只要这些代表大会被用于侮辱，就可以采取这种策略来煽动对其他方面的侮辱。

毛：最近，韩国工人党没有邀请外宾参加大会。 CDE。金日成去年访问了我们的国家;他问我们：“你是否邀请任何人？”我们告诉他：不，我们不邀请任何人;很难邀请其他人。他们越是侮辱和评判他人，他们就会面临更糟糕的事情。

有更多的嘉宾出席，他们没有相同的意见;举行双边关系比较好，比如反对帝国主义;然后我们战斗。他们想要联合行动;这很难，因为有不同的意见。几年前，我们和几位同志交谈过，我们告诉他们我们不能达成这样的协议;即使那时天空并没有坠落，地球仍在继续旋转。

齐奥塞斯库：当然，如果我们终止了侮辱和标签，那就太好了。我必须告诉你，许多党派都呼吁，即使在1969年的[兄弟党] [莫斯科]大会和苏共大会上，许多政党 - 甚至是大党 - 都拒绝同盟谴责中共，并正在设法与中共建立关系。

毛：双边做这些事情比较好，比如我们两人之间的关系。

齐奥塞斯库：这正是这些党派想要的，例如意大利人，西班牙人，[和]其他人。当我们离开这里时，他们要求我们传达他们重新建立联系的愿望。

毛：我们可以重建它们，但问题仍然是我们如何处理债务给我们，因为他们过去曾经诅咒过我们，并且侮辱了我们。

CDE。周恩来：他们的债务存在利息问题。

毛：我们有这样的计算。如果他们不再侮辱我们，至少他们应该谈论他们欠我们的债务，就像你所做的一样。没有太多需要，只需要几个字。

齐奥塞斯库：有些人已经说过了，我们跟他们说过：他们已经准备好认识到过去的做法不好。

毛：不仅仅是他们不好，他们错了。

齐奥塞斯库：是的，错了。

毛：他们错了。事情以令人难以置信的方式发展。我们可以说，伟大的家庭，国际主义无产阶级，团结的，实际上是分裂的。这不是什么大问题，如果他们想要分裂的话，很多地方都会分裂。即使整个意大利党想来中国，他们都欢迎来到这里。他们被允许在报纸和杂志上诅咒我们，但他们也必须允许其他人表达自由。无论国家大小如何，我们都会回应我们头脑中的任何人（无论他们拥有多少炸弹）。您可以访问我们的现代庇护所。我们已经建立了他们在战争的情况下。

你会参观中国的西北部吗？我们必须为任何可能性做好准备。

齐奥塞斯库：分裂确实造成了很大的伤害。当然，犯了很多错误，但我们必须纠正错误，我相信我们都必须朝这个方向努力。

毛泽东：我们不会放任何东西，而且会继续在我们的教条主义中;甚至一千年。[3]有一次，当[苏联总理阿列克谢]柯西金访问时，我们把这个时间缩短了1000年;有一次，在罗马尼亚代表团访问期间，我们再次减少了1000年;我们立刻从这个时期减少了2000年。这是非常危险的，只剩下8000年了。

齐奥塞斯库：我们可以减少一些！

毛：连一年都不能脱身。他们可以坐在我们的头上，但我们必须回答。对于小国家我们不这样做。我们不能对他们说一句话，但对于大国来说，我们没有考虑任何事情。我们不会被任何信使感动[purtatori de cuvant]，他们给予建议;他们给我们的建议越多，事情就会越糟糕，因为我们这里，我们所有人都是官僚和军国主义者，我们背叛了马克思列宁主义，我们没有必要的素质成为伟大家庭的一部分。你这样做，我们不。

齐奥塞斯库：现在我们是民族主义者。

毛：你也被贴上标签。

CDE。 Ion Gheroghe Maurer：减少[标签]，但有一些Cde。毛泽东。

毛：你已经被贴上标签，因为你正在抵抗压力。对我们来说，标签不是太多，也不算太少 - 8000年。每个人都应该听。现在军国主义占据了中心位置 - 我们肯定不会再减少[任何年份];他（指林彪）是军阀的首脑。但我也是军国主义者和官僚的一部分。他们非常聪明。赫鲁晓夫以一种非常有创意的方式发展了马克思列宁主义。我问柯西金这个和赫鲁晓夫一样好的人，他发展了马克思列宁主义，为什么你把他边缘化呢？他很难给我任何动机。然后我告诉他：如果你不再需要他，把他给我们;我们邀请赫鲁晓夫来北京大学举办马克思列宁主义。科西金当时无法回答。我必须得出结论，这样的国家不是一个好国家。我会告诉你一件事：我们在媒体上发表他们的文章，但他们不会在媒体上发表我们的回复。这里一定有一个原因。不得不否认有军政官员专制国家的教条主义者发表的文章。整个苏联人民都应该了解他们，所以他们可以否认他们。但他们没有发表。在这种情况下，他们甚至支持一些帝国主义国家。美国报纸敢于发表我们关于他们的文章。特别是，我提到纽约时报。

你在美国，但我们所有人都在这里，我们没有去过。我们在那边发了一个乒乓球。

齐奥塞斯库：看起来它的位置很好。

毛：你同意这个球吗？

齐奥塞斯库：我们同意。

毛：我读过布达佩斯的一篇文章;即使在那里他们也表现出与这个球的一致。在乒乓球比赛中有什么伟大的？美国副总统 - [斯皮罗]阿格纽说，他不是为了它。在这里的乒乓球代表团团长说，我们不玩乒乓球，而是乒乓球。他正在尝试玩文字游戏。

齐奥塞斯库：是的，乒乓球是一款非常有趣的比赛，尤其是因为你拥有非常出色的球员。

毛：[4]但代表团团长是愚蠢的;我们批评他。他们做了这件事只追逐奖品，只想赢得胜利;他们不想失去;他们拿走了七个奖牌中的四个，他们并不满意。怎么可能只追逐奖赏？体育运动委员会的领导确实是官僚和大国沙文主义者。我国有这种大国沙文主义的例子，相当普遍;他们总是试图击败其他国家。同时，他们无能为力，除了我们赢得的事实外，他们到处吹嘘。其中一人在这里，我和他吵架了。他只说中国的好事。我告诉他，他说的没有道理。他举了中国发射卫星的例子。我告诉他，目前有2000颗卫星绕地球旋转，当时我们只把它们中的一颗放在轨道上，而你，法国人发射了一颗，而日本，另一颗，共三颗，超过2000颗卫星由其他国家发射。幸灾乐祸是不好的;我们该如何幸福？

齐奥塞斯库：这是事实，这只是一个开始，但这是一个好的开始，因为其他国家也从一个开始。

毛：那是非常真实的。我同意，这符合现实。

他们甚至去了月球;目前，我们没有这种可能性。然而，与此同时，我们对此没有兴趣，我们也不赞赏那些登上月球的人。在这种情况下，我们是平等的;我们和你们都没有到达月球。

齐奥塞斯库：我们也没有想到将来会这样做，它非常昂贵。

周恩来：特别是因为那里没有水或空气！

齐奥塞斯库：没有任何结果，除了科学目的和出于好奇之外。

周恩来：并非地球上所有的问题都已解决，他们已经登上了月球。

齐奥塞斯库：但是这场对月球的比赛非常昂贵。

周恩来：垄断者从中获利丰厚，因为他们接到订单;即使月球的土地也被分割了。

齐奥塞斯库：即便如此，人们为这场比赛付出了很多。

毛：所有的人？

齐奥塞斯库：那些承担它的人。

毛：两个人。什么是超级大国？

齐奥塞斯库：很难给出一个定Yi。

毛泽东：拥有更多核武器并接管了许多领土的人;他们可以控制其他国家，而其他国家则不能。

到现在为止，我们只以牺牲其他人为代价说不幸的话。我们已经开始诅咒超级大国了。

周恩来：在明天的发言中我会提到这一点。如果我们谈到超级大国，他们就不会离开。

毛：没关系;如果我们谈到社会主Yi帝国主Yi，他们就不会离开。我们把它命名为社会主义帝国主Yi。我们没有说这是列宁，换句话说，他们是社会主义者，他们是帝国主Yi者。

周恩来：我们在1968年8月23日由[罗马尼亚]大使[奥雷利亚]杜马主持招待会之际开始使用这个词。它是由捷克斯洛伐克的事件引起的。

毛：在Cde之际。 [Emil] Bodnaras在这里拜访，他告诉我们什么是Cde。周恩来说这些事件是有用的;我们没有注意到，我们没有感觉到;他告诉我们这很有用。

齐奥塞斯库：我们赞赏Cde的演讲。周恩来把他们视为对国家和共产主义运动的援助。毕竟，很多政党都谴责这次入侵。

毛：我想知道他们入侵的原因是什么，派兵到那里并占据黑暗掩护的地方，部队在英国降落。

齐奥塞斯库：入侵前几天我们在捷克斯洛伐克，我们与党的领导层见了面，工人阶级也没有遇到社会主义的危险。

毛：但他们说有严重的危险，他们必须捍卫社会主Yi。

齐奥塞斯库：只有一种危险，那就是对苏联的统治政策有严肃的批评。

毛：是的，就是这样，只有这一点。那时他们有很好的计划，不仅对捷克斯洛伐克，而且对你和南斯拉夫。

齐奥塞斯库：也许他们考虑过这个问题，但是现在，我们一直都是，并且一直都不会接受任何这样的行动。

毛：因为你准备好了，特别是在军事领域。如果他们来了，你会首先争取。

齐奥塞斯库：我们是一个小国，但我们不想生活在外国统治下。当然，我们与大家保持友好关系，我们非常感谢朋友和友好关系，但我们认为，罗马尼亚的问题首先由党，工人阶级，罗马尼亚人民解决。

毛：在我看来，这很好。

齐奥塞斯库：如果我们工作得不好，我们的工人阶级，我们的人民将会评判我们。

毛：如果你准备好了，他们会害怕你。

越南也是一个小国，柬埔寨是一个更小的国家，老挝更小。他们进行了十年的战争，不包括对法国人的战争。有结论认为我们应该被视为warmongers。我们会回复任何来到这里的人。我们正在帮助那些反对入侵的人。你正在帮助印度支那国家的斗争来拯救他们的祖国。

齐奥塞斯库：从一开始我们就帮助了越南，老挝和现在的柬埔寨。我们还帮助打击反对殖民主义的非洲人民的斗争。

毛：那很好。我们有相同的职位。

也许我们应该停下来。 CDE。周恩来说，你今天下午会发言。不要与他斗争！

齐奥塞斯库：我不认为我们会和他作战。

毛：第三次世界大战即将开始。你们两个会打架，我不会参加，因为我是一个官僚主Yi者。

齐奥塞斯库：嗯，那很好，那么会有人在我们之间建立和平。

毛：用Cde。毛雷尔，我们有类似的名字。我的名字也是从毛开始的。

齐奥塞斯库：那么，建立良好关系，进行合作就显得尤为重要。我们非常赞赏我们两国和各方之间的关系。

毛：不要太赞赏。就这样，这很好。我们不打架。当然，有时候我们会战斗一点，就像今天下午我们会战斗一样。必须进行讨论。

齐奥塞斯库：我希望我们会讨论，但我不相信我们会战斗。

[1]目前还不清楚“他们”是谁。鉴于讨论的背景，毛可能指的是苏联领导层。

[2]毛提到1960年6月26日在布加勒斯特举行的兄弟党大会。在大会期间，苏联代表团攻击了中国代表团的偏离主义和派别主义。

[3]中国人有一万年有永恒的惯用意义。

[4]该段有些困惑，因此不清楚毛是在谈论哪个人或代表团。 美国队对中国的历史性访问于1971年4月12日举行。

Ceausescu: It’s true, in the past years we had good results. We are also concerned with changing education, to tie it better to production. We are preoccupied with attracting the working class to the management of the institutions, and tying the party to the popular masses.

We can say that, generally, things go forth in good order. Of course, we have lots of deficiencies, but we are trying hard, together with the working class, with the people, to ensure the construction of socialism.

Mao: If we talk about deficiencies, then we too can say we have plenty.

Ceausescu: There is not one country that does not have deficiencies. The difference is that some work to resolve them, while others try to hide them.

Mao: Deficiencies cannot be hidden, because sooner or later—in a day, a year, or future centuries—these deficiencies will be revealed. It is better if we tell people what’s what; people cannot be deceived. [Deceiving] can only go on for a short time. People cannot be deceived for decades.

Ceausescu: This is very true, especially today, with today’s communication and information methods, reality cannot be hidden for very long.

Mao: It is very true. Even they know this.[1]

Ceausescu: After all, conflicts appear where they try to hide reality from people.

Mao: In some places, conflicts did not appear yet.

Ceausescu: But it is inevitable that conflicts would appear.

Mao: That is so.

Ceausescu: Of course, if they will take no action to straighten up things, and remove [deficits].

Mao: There are certain [communist] parties that insult other parties; they think that truth is on their side, that the other parties always make mistakes. We are called dogmatic, warmongers, that we have a dictatorship. That is what they say, that here we have a military bureaucratic dictatorship.

Ceausescu: Unfortunately, it is true, that there still exists this practice of name-calling, of insulting other parties.

Mao: There are certain parties, like yours, that do not say that. Recently, I read a speech of yours. In a very open way, there was the recognition that there have been mistakes in the past; other parties cannot come to terms with such things. Certain parties insulted us for over ten years, and we did not respond with even a word. They are forced to insult us. We can show understanding toward such occurrences. At the same time, we are happy that we have the quality of being insulted. This is very good. The meeting that took place in Bucharest in 1960, was that not imposed on you?[2] At that time, Cde. Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej had lots of difficulties. Can we impugn you for this?!

Ceausescu: It is true that the meeting took place there, and in a way, we too are at fault, since we could have refused to hold that meeting. Today such a meeting could not, and does not, take place in Romania.

Mao: At that time it was hard to refuse to host the conference. On the occasion of the Chinese Communist Party’s 8th Congress, which took place in 1956, I had an interesting conversation with Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej. He told me some things straight from the heart. It was, of course, difficult to put up with such things. The Cominform was disbanded then, and that gave rise to debates. Criticism was necessary for this to happen.

Ceausescu: It is true that there were some hard times; even today there are some hard times. There are new designs to create different leadership formats that would take away the independence of other states and parties.

Mao: It would be good if the whole planet would be the domain of one single country!

Ceausescu: It’s hard; even what is available now it’s too much.

Mao: Is it really too much?!

Ceausescu: We feel that the best way is to have relations based on equality among all nations in the world.

Mao: Irrespective of their size, even [countries] as small as San Marino, which has a population of 16,000 people; we were sincerely glad to be able to establish diplomatic contacts with such a country.

Ceausescu: Of course, on this globe there are countries that are very large, large, medium countries, small and very small [countries], but all nations desire to build their lives freely; of course, in close cooperation with other states, with other nations, but without subordinating one to the other.

Mao: There is another issue, and that is that, on the occasion of the [Party] congresses, there are other parties invited; during the congress, for example during the Czechoslovak congress, insults and blaming takes place. Would it not be better to change this practice? Better not to invite any foreign delegations to the congresses. We did not invite anyone to the 9th Congress. It is true that the sky did not fall.

Ceausescu: It is true that such a tactic could be adopted, as long as the congresses are being used for insults, to hurl insults at other parties.

Mao: Recently, the Korean Workers’ Party did not invite foreign guests to their congress. Cde. Kim Il Sung visited our country last year; he asked us: “are you inviting anyone?” We told him: no, we are not inviting anyone; it is difficult to invite other people. The more they insult and judge other people, the worse things will go for them.

There are more guests present, and they do not have identical opinions; it is better to have bilateral relations, like, for example, the fight against imperialism; then we fight. They want to have united action; it is hard because there are different opinions. A few years back, we talked with a few comrades, we told them that we cannot reach such accords; even then the sky did not fall, and the planet continues to revolve.

Ceausescu: Of course, it would be good if we reached an end to the insults and labeling. I have to tell you that many parties are calling for this, that even at the [Moscow] congress of the [fraternal] parties in 1969, and at the CPSU congress, a lot of parties—even big parties—refused to ally with the condemnation of the Chinese Communist Party, and are trying to find ways to establish relations with the CCP.

Mao: It is better to do these things bilaterally, like for example the relationship between the two of us.

Ceausescu: This is exactly what these parties want, for example the Italian, Spanish, [and] others. When we left to come here, they asked us to transmit their desire to reestablish contacts.

Mao: We can reestablish them, but the question remains what we do with their debt to us, because they have cursed and insulted us a lot in the past.

Cde. Zhou Enlai: And there is the issue of interest on their debt.

Mao: We have such calculations. If they no longer insult us, at least they should say something about the debt they owe us, the same way you did. There is no need for much, just a few words.

Ceausescu: Some have already said it, and we talked to them: they are ready to recognize that the past way was not good.

Mao: Not just that they were not good, they were wrong.

Ceausescu: Yes, wrong.

Mao: They were wrong. Things developed in an unbelievable fashion. What can we say of the great family, of the internationalist proletariat, of unity, when in reality there was a schism. It’s not a big deal, if they want a schism, a separation in many parts. Even if the entire Italian party wants to come to China, they are welcome here. They are allowed to curse us in their newspapers and magazines, but they must allow others freedom of expression as well. We will respond to any who shit on our head (isi fac scaun in capul nostru), irrespective of the size of the country, irrespective of the number of bombs they have. You can visit our modern shelters. We have built them in case of a war.

Will you visit the North-West of China? We have to be prepared for any possibility.

Ceausescu: It is true that the schism has caused much damage. Of course, there have been many mistakes made, but we have to put right the mistakes and I believe that we all have to work in this direction.

Mao: We will not put anything right, and will continue in our dogmatism; even [for] ten thousand years.[3] One time, when [Soviet Premier Alexei] Kosygin visited, we reduced that time by 1000 years; one time, during the visit of the Romanian delegation, we reduced it again by 1000 years; at once we reduced 2000 years from this period. It is very dangerous, there are only 8000 years left.

Ceausescu: We can reduce some more!

Mao: Not even one year can be taken off. They can sit on our heads, but we must answer back. We do not do this when it comes to small countries. We cannot say a word toward them, but with regard to the big countries, we do not take anything into consideration. We will not be moved by any messengers [purtatori de cuvant], who give advice; the more advice they give us, the worse things will go, since we here, all of us, are bureaucrats and militarists, we betrayed Marxist-Leninism, we do not have the qualities necessary to be part of the great family. You do, we do not.

Ceausescu: Now we are nationalists.

Mao: You too are being labeled.

Cde. Ion Gheroghe Maurer: Fewer [labels], but there are some, Cde. Mao Zedong.

Mao: You have so been labeled because you are resisting the pressure. For us, the labels are not too many, and not too few—8000 years. Everybody should listen up. Now militarism has taken center stage—it is certain that we will no longer reduce [any years]; he (points to Lin Biao) is the head of the militarists. But I too, am part of the militarists and the bureaucrats. They are very smart. Khrushchev developed Marxism-Leninism in a very creative way. I asked [Kosygin], a man as good as Khrushchev, who developed Marxism-Leninism, why have you marginalized him? It was difficult for him to give me any motives. Then I told him: if you no longer need him, give him to us; we invite Khrushchev to come to Beijing University, to hold classes on Marxism-Leninism. Kosygin could not answer then. I have to conclude that such a country is not a good one. I will tell you one thing: we publish [their] articles in our press, but they do not publish our replies in their press. Here there must be a reason. Articles published by dogmatists, by countries where there is a military-bureaucratic dictatorship, have to be repudiated. The entire Soviet people should know them, so they can repudiate them. But they did not publish them. In this instance, they are even behind some imperialist countries; American newspapers have dared publish our articles about them. Especially, I speak of the New York Times.

You have been in the United States of America, but all of us here, we have not been. We sent a ping-pong ball over there.

Ceausescu: It seems it was well placed.

Mao: Do you agree with this ball?

Ceausescu: We agree.

Mao: I read an article published in Budapest; even there they are showing their agreement with this ball. What is so great in the game of ping-pong? The US Vice President—[Spiro] Agnew—said that he is not for it. The leader of the ping-pong delegation that was here said that we do not play ping-pong, rather table tennis. He was trying a play on words.

Ceausescu: Yes, ping-pong is a very interesting game, especially since you have very good players.

Mao:[4] But the leader of the delegation was stupid; we criticized him. They have done this thing chasing only prizes, thinking only to win; they did not want to lose; they took four of the seven medals, and they were not satisfied. How is that possible, to chase only prizes[?] The leaders from the Committee for Physical Education and Sport are, indeed, bureaucrats and great power chauvinists. Our country has such instances of great power chauvinism, quite widespread; they are always trying to defeat other countries. At the same time, they were incapable, since aside from the fact that we won, they boasted everywhere. One of them was here, and I had a fight with him. He said only good things about China. I told him that there is not truth in what he’s saying. He gave the example of China’s launch of a satellite. I told him that presently there are 2000 satellites revolving around the Earth, and we only placed one of them in orbit at that time, while you, the French, launched one, and Japan, another one, a total of three, and over 2000 satellites are launched by other countries. It is not good to gloat; how can we gloat?

Ceausescu: It is true, it’s only a beginning, but it is a good beginning, because the other countries started with one as well.

Mao: That is very true. I agree, this corresponds to reality.

They even went to the moon; presently, we do not have such possibilities. At the same time, however, we do not have an interest in doing so, and we do not admire those who got to the moon. In this instance, we are equal in right; neither us, nor you, have reached the moon.

Ceausescu: We do not think of doing this in the future either, it is very expensive.

Zhou Enlai: Especially since there is no water or air there!

Ceausescu: And without any results, aside from scientific ends, and out of curiosity.

Zhou Enlai: Not all issues here on Earth have been resolved, and they have already gotten to the Moon.

Ceausescu: But this race to the Moon is very expensive.

Zhou Enlai: The monopolists are making nice profits from this, because they receive orders; even the land of the Moon has been divided up.

Ceausescu: Even so, the people are paying a lot for this race.

Mao: All the people?

Ceausescu: Those who undertake it.

Mao: Two people. What are the superpowers?

Ceausescu: It’s hard to give a definition.

Mao: Those that have more nuclear weapons and have taken over many territories; they can control other countries, while other countries cannot.

Until now we have only said unlucky words at the expense of others. We have begun by cursing the superpowers.

Zhou Enlai: In my speech tomorrow I will make a reference to this. They will not leave if we speak of the superpowers.

Mao: That’s fine; they will not leave if we speak of socialist-imperialism. We gave it a name—socialist-imperialism. We did not say this, it was Lenin; in words they are socialists, in deeds they are imperialists.

Zhou Enlai: We began using this term with the occasion of the reception hosted by [Romanian] Ambassador [Aurelian] Duma on 23 August 1968. It was brought forth by the events in Czechoslovakia.

Mao: On the occasion of Cde. [Emil] Bodnaras visit here, he told us that what Cde. Zhou Enlai said with regard to these events was useful; we did not notice, we did not feel that; he told us it was useful.

Ceausescu: We appreciated the speech of Cde. Zhou Enlai, and looked at them as aid to our country and to the communist movement. After all, many, many parties have condemned the invasion.

Mao: I wonder what the reasons were for their invasion, to send troops there and to occupy places under cover of darkness; troops were parachuted in.

Ceausescu: We were in Czechoslovakia a few days before the invasion, and we met with the party leadership, with the working class, there was no danger to socialism.

Mao: But they said that there was a grave danger, that they have to defend socialism.

Ceausescu: There was only one danger, and that was that there were serious criticisms against the [Soviet] policy of domination.

Mao: Yes, that was it, and only this. At that time they had great plans, not only against Czechoslovakia, but also against you and Yugoslavia.

Ceausescu: Maybe they thought about it, but then, and now, we were, and continue to be, set not to accept any such actions.

Mao: Because you are prepared, especially in the military field. If they shall come, you will fight first and foremost.

Ceausescu: We are a small country, but we do not want to live under [foreign] domination. Of course, we have friendly relations with everyone, we greatly appreciate friends and friendly relations, but we consider that Romania’s problems are first and foremost to be solved by the party, the working class, the Romanian people.

Mao: In my opinion, that is good.

Ceausescu: If we work poorly, our working class, our people, will judge us.

Mao: If you are prepared, they will fear you.

Vietnam is also a small country; Cambodia is an even smaller country, and Laos is smaller still. They carried out a ten-year war, not including the war against the French. There are conclusions that we should be considered warmongers. We will respond to anyone who comes here. We are helping those who fight against the invasion. You are helping the fight of the Indochinese countries to save their motherland.

Ceausescu: From the very beginning we have helped Vietnam, Laos, and now Cambodia. We also offer aid to the fight of African people who fight against colonialism.

Mao: That is very good. We have identical positions.

Maybe we should stop here. Cde. Zhou Enlai said that you will speak this afternoon. Do fight with him!

Ceausescu: I don’t think we will fight with him.

Mao: The third world war will start. The two of you will fight, I will not take part, since I am a bureaucrat.

Ceausescu: Well, that’s good, then there will be someone to make peace between us.

Mao: With Cde. Maurer, we have similar names. My name begins with Mao as well.

Ceausescu: Then, it is even more important to have good relations, to collaborate well. We appreciate very much the relations between our two countries and parties.

Mao: Don’t give it too much appreciation. Just so, it is well. We do not fight. Of course, sometimes we fight a little, like we’ll fight this afternoon. There have to be discussions.

Ceausescu: I hope we’ll have discussions, but I don’t believe we’ll fight.

[1] It is unclear who “they” are. Given the context of discussions, it is possible that Mao is referring to the Soviet leadership.

[2] Mao refers to the Congress of the Fraternal Parties that took place in Bucharest, 26 June 1960. During the congress, the Soviet delegation attacked the Chinese delegation for deviationism and factionalism.

[3] 10,000 years in Chinese has an idiomatic meaning of eternity.

[4] The paragraph is somewhat confused, making it unclear which person or delegation Mao is talking about. The historic visit of the US team to China took place on 12 April 1971.