小鹰

拙作《总统是否得豁免，界线当划在哪里？》(http://www.azcolabs.com/xy_Trump_immunity.html)发表之後，看到有如下评论。

“佐治亞州的起訴川普有一證據：

〈有电话录音记录，川普说，‘你瞧，所有我想要的是这个，我要你找出11780张选票，比我们嬴所需要的刚好多出一票。因为我们已赢了这个州。’〉

僅憑這一句，法律上很難作為川普犯罪的證據。因為當時佐治亞州傳出一些選票舞弊的可能性。如點票處突然漏雨停點。復點後，拜登票大漲，川普票大減。存在川普票被人為遺失的可能性。川普讓管理選舉的州务卿去追查，找出遺失的川普票，這不犯法。他沒有讓州务卿不去找而非法增加。也沒有說用非法手段去找。”

“作为州务卿，他是有责任管理选票的。在他的管理范围内被要求找出丢失的选票，请问这跟‘利用职权盗选贿选’有何联系？”

我的回应如下：

1/2/2021，川普总统给乔治亚的州务卿打了一个多小时的电话，该州务卿Brad Raffensperger是个资深共和党员(a fellow Republican)，也是该州负责选举的最高官员，通话时在场的还有州务卿办公室的首席律师Ryan Germany等人。

因篇幅有限，这一个多小时的通话，我只引了其中一句：

“你瞧，所有我想要的是这个，我要你找出11780张选票，比我们嬴所需要的刚好多出一票。因为我们已赢了这个州。”(So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.)

当时，州务卿和律师已来回告诉川普，选举的结果是精确和正确的，但川普没完没了，死乞白咧地矫情，威逼利诱，具体指定他所要的数字。

川普那番话听起来，很像是当年毛泽东在布置“政治任务”，要各地官员“镇反”、“徵粮”或“反右”必须达到的百分数“硬指标”。而且，毛下达任务时，比如某地要杀多少“反革命”，他也没有要下面“用非法手段”去完成，他只是要那个百分数字，所以，按该评论的说法，毛“在技术”上，也的确没有“犯法”，纯属于“公务行为”。

而这也正合最近最高法院首席大法官约翰·罗伯茨(John Roberts)之判决：若总统以“官方方式”行事(official acts)，一切当得“豁免”，即“官府公事公办，尔等不得妄议”。

在该判决中，大法官约翰·罗伯茨还添加了这样一句话：“法院不能考虑总统的意图，也不可简单地因为某行为违反了法律，便指称该行为就是‘非官方的’。”

(In conducting the official/unofficial inquiry, Roberts added, courts cannot consider the president’s motives, nor can they designate an act as unofficial simply because it allegedly violates the law.)

这就是说，只要总统行的是“官方行为”，即使是违法，也可得到“豁免”，只有当总统从事所谓的“非官方行为”，违法之後，才能追究？

这位大法官真够可以的了，要知道，就是中外历代皇帝享有的“特权”，也不过如此！

这里插问一句，假如那时州务卿真的按照川普的要求，篡改了选票结果，又被人发现了，这样，他会不会因有违反选举法的“实际行动”，而被裁定“渎职罪”或“欺诈罪”？答案多半是会。

显然，川普这里打的“如意算盘”还是：“事成，我做总统，事败，你进局子。”

因此，这里就涉及到一些“擦边球”的法律问题，例如，教唆犯罪、买凶杀人、煽动暴乱，以至在公众场合，无故大叫“着火了！”等行为，事主只有“主观意愿”，只是“动了嘴皮”，并未有相应的“实际行为”，他们是否是属于受法律保护的“言论自由”、或正当的“商务交易”或“履行公务”？

还望约翰·罗伯茨等大法官再给个明确的说法，特别是，总统与这些普通“当事人”有什么区别？为什么？

可是，当州务卿据实以告，拒绝了川普这一无理要求之後，他不但受到入狱的威胁，他和家人也遭到川派大量的骚扰。

拙文中，我说川普的这个电话明显属于“利用职权盗选贿选”的违宪行为。

我有没有冤枉他，各人可去查看文末的[附录]：川普与乔治亚州州务卿通话记录，看该句前後双方都说了些什么？

该[附录]节选了若干对话段落。例如，这位“精明的”总统，问到了“缺席选举人票”、“死人投票”、“销毁选票”、“投票机作假”等“听说”，一再“提示”可以因此“再记数”，并威胁说，“如果不报告，就是犯罪”、“你们将会有大的危险”等。

及至州务卿和首席律师一一作答，否定了川普的各种“听说”之後，总统又说，周二是你们州的选举日，你是共和党人，许多共和党人都会不选你，因为他们讨厌你这样对待总统。(And you’re a Republican. And a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president.)

原对话内容极为丰富，语气生动传神，务请读者前往领略，近距离看看这位总统是如何“干脏活儿”的。

试举一段：

州务卿：我们相信我们的确有了一个精准的选举。

川普：不，不，你们没有，不，不，你们没有，你们没有，你们没有，差得老远去了。你们的结果差了几十万票。

RAFFENSPERGER: We believe that we do have an accurate election.

TRUMP: No, no, you don’t. No, no, you don’t. You don’t have, you don’t have. Not even close. You’re off by hundreds of thousands of votes.

读者会想，川普凭什么这么说啊？他怎么就肯定差了几十万投他的选票？

诸位，这只是因为那天已是一月二日，离国会认证大选结果的日子只有4天了，从“语无伦次”的口气来看，川普显然已是急了眼儿。他硬要州务卿给出他赢的数字，而且第二天就要，就算是要查，州务卿又哪有时间去查对？

因此，这哪里是什么要“打假赳错”？分明就是利用总统职权强行索票！分明就是公然要州务卿造假，以配合其盗选！

录音中类似的对话很多，如有热心通晓者肯译为中文，以饗众多读者，更是一件幸事。

倘有“阴谋论者”以为这又是“断章取义”，亦可自行查对电话记录全文并请指谬。

Read the full transcript and listen to Trump’s audio call with Georgia secretary of state，Updated 10:21 PM EST, Sun January 3, 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html

顺便提醒一句，查看时，若一时找不到感觉，不妨设想一下，说那些话的是拜登，而不是川普，看看自己在感觉上会不会有什么变化？

第二，也请诸君设想，如果是自己处在州务卿的位置，又会怎样回应总统的电话？

会不会非常识相和知趣地以国内官场套话回答：

“请川总放心，鄙人姓‘党’，小的在下一定以党国为重，党国为重！”？

最近不少红州“义人”立法，要将《圣经》的十诫刻在每所学校的墙上，但这些人有没有把她也刻在自己的“心版”(the tablet of your heart)上，时时恪守、约束自己？

特别是，“不可作假见证陷害人。”(“You should not give false testimony against your neighbor.”)

以及“除了我以外，你不可有别的神。”(“You shall have no other gods before me.”)

“不可为自己雕刻偶像，……不可跪拜那些像，也不可事奉它，因为我耶和华你的神是忌邪的神。”(“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything…….You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Loard your God, am a jealous God.”)

我想，这位州务卿Brad Raffensperger先生，在此事上是做到了的，他没有作假见证，也没有把川普当作偶像来膜拜。

神又说：“爱我，守我诫命的，我必向他们发慈爱，直到千代。”(“showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.”)

那你我的选择该是什么呢？

写于2024年7月8日。

[附录] 川普与乔治亚州州务卿通话记录，1/2/2021。(节选)

Transcript: Highlights of Trump’s Call with the Georgia Secretary of State

Background: In a leaked telephone conversation, President Trump pressured Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger of Georgia, a fellow Republican and the state’s top elections official, on Jan. 2 to overturn the election results in his state, reciting debunked claims of election fraud.
You can listen to excerpts from the recording, which was obtained by The New York Times, in this seven-minute audio clip, and follow along in the transcript below. You can find the full transcript and recording here.
Directions: As you listen, highlight, underline or take notes about what you notice
and wonder about the conversation. Which lines stand out to you? What questions do you have? If you’re in a classroom context, share at least one thing you noticed and one thing you wondered with the class or a partner. Then, read the featured article.

Excerpt #1
TRUMP: We have, we have, we have won this election in Georgia based on all of this. And there’s, there’s nothing wrong with saying that, Brad. You know, I mean, having the, having a correct — the people of Georgia are angry and these numbers are going to be repeated on Monday night, along with others that we’re going to have by that time, which are much more substantial even. And the people of Georgia are angry, the people of the country are angry. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, um, that you’ve recalculated. And there’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, um, that you’ve recalculated because the 2,236 and absentee ballots, I mean, they’re all exact numbers that were, were done by accounting firms, law firms, etc. And even if you cut ’em in half, cut ’em in half and cut ’em in half again, it’s more votes than we need.

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong. We, we talked to the congressmen, and they were surprised. But they —I guess, there’s a person named Mr. Brainard that came to these meetings and presented data and he said that there was dead people, I believe it was upward of 5,000. The actual number were two. Two. Two people that were dead that voted. And so, that’s wrong, that was two.

Excerpt #2
TRUMP: Now, do you think it’s possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton County? Because that’s what the rumor is. And also that Dominion took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their, uh, machinery. Do you know anything about that? Because that’s illegal, right?

RYAN GERMANY, lawyer for Georgia secretary of state’s office: This is Ryan Germany. No, Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County.

TRUMP: But have they moved the inner parts of the machines and replaced them with other parts?

GERMANY: No.

TRUMP: Are you sure, Ryan?

GERMANY: I’m sure. I’m sure, Mr. President.

Excerpt #3
RAFFENSPERGER: Mr. President, the problem you have with social media, they —people can say anything.

TRUMP: Oh, this isn’t social media. This is Trump media. It’s not social media. It’s really not, it’s not social media. I don’t care about social media. I couldn’t care less. Social media is Big Tech. Big Tech is on your side, you know. I don’t even know why you have a side, because you should want to have an accurate election. And you’re a Republican.

RAFFENSPERGER: We believe that we do have an accurate election.

TRUMP: No, no, you don’t. No, no, you don’t. You don’t have, you don’t have. Not even close. You’re off by hundreds of thousands of votes.

Excerpt #4
TRUMP: ... because, you know what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal — that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I’ve heard. And they are removing machinery and they’re moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal finds. And you can’t let it happen and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I’m notifying you that you’re letting it happen. So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state.

Excerpt #5
TRUMP: So tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election, and it’s not fair to take it away from us like this. And it’s going to be very costly in many ways. And I think you have to say that you’re going to re-examine it, and you can re-examine it, but re-examine it with people that want to find answers, not people that don’t want to find answers. For instance, I’m hearing Ryan, and he’s probably, I’m sure a great lawyer and everything. But he’s making statements about those ballots that he doesn’t know. But he’s making them with such — he did make them with surety. But now I think he’s less sure, because the answer is they all went to Biden, and that alone wins us the election by a lot. You know, so.

RAFFENSPERGER: Mr. President, you have people that submit information, and we have our people that submit information. And then it comes before the court, and the court then has to make a determination. We have to stand by our numbers. We believe our numbers are right.

Excerpt #6
Trump: Well, under law, you’re not allowed to give faulty election results. OK? You’re not allowed to do that, and that’s what you’ve done. This is a faulty election result. And honestly, this should go very fast, you should meet tomorrow, because you have a big election coming up, and because of what you’ve done to the president, you know the people of Georgia know that this was a scam. And because of what you’ve done to the
president, a lot of people aren’t going out to vote. And a lot of Republicans are going to 
vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president. OK, they hate it. And they’re going to vote, and you would be respected if, really respected if this thing could be straightened out before the election. You have a big election coming up on Tuesday.

Excerpt #7
Trump: ... I mean, look, that’s, you’d have to be a child to think anything other than that. Just a child.

MITCHELL: How many ballots, Mr. Secretary, are you saying were processed then?

RAFFENSPERGER: We had G.B.I. thoroughly investigate that.

RYAN GERMANY, chief lawyer, Georgia secretary of state’s office: We had our — this is Ryan Germany. We had our law enforcement officers talk to everyone who was, who was there after that event came to light. G.B.I. was with them as well as F.B.I. agents.

TRUMP: Well, there’s no way they could — then they’re incompetent. They’re either dishonest or incompetent, OK?

MITCHELL: Well, what did they find?

Excerpt #8
Trump: I would like you to, for the attorneys of, I’d like you to perhaps speak with Ryan, ideally tomorrow, because I think we should come to a resolution of this before the election, otherwise you’re going to have, you’re going to have people just not voting. They don’t want to vote, they hate the state. They hate the governor, and they hate the secretary of state. I will tell you that right now. And the only people that like you are people that will never vote for you, you know that Brad, right? They like you, you know, they like you, they can’t believe what they found. They want more people like you. So look, can you get together tomorrow, and Brad, we just want the truth. It’s simple.